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20 offices, and I said, If we need an office that big in a year from now, then I don t know what we re doing, because we don t need that many people. He said, OK. You can make that decision. So we got like a 1,500-square-foot office that we outgrew in 8 months. People asked why we got such a small office, and it was because I thought everything else was too big. I realized that on my own. It was really important; he did it in a good way.
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Livingston: This is surprising, based on the stories I ve heard about investors. Trott: The Neoteny investment was such an anomaly. We were this incredibly
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early-stage company that had no structure, no employees, no really good accounting, nothing but the LLC. But we had a huge customer base, which I don t think most startups have. We had hundreds of thousands of people using our products, and it had been operated with so few resources. So we had to really start from scratch. If it wasn t for Barak, I don t know where we would be now. We knew what we knew, which was the product. But there were all these little things that you just have no clue about. It was incredibly overwhelming. But if you think about it too much, then you don t do it. You almost have to not know what you re getting into to actually do it.
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Livingston: Tell me about other things that went wrong. Trott: Ben and I were still trying to do everything ourselves, and that was
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incredibly stupid because we just wore ourselves to death. Ben and I pretty much were the only people that built the first version of TypePad. We said, Let s not hire anybody. We did Movable Type on our own. We can do TypePad on our own. And it killed us. The slow pace at which we hired was good for the budget because we were able to operate on that $600,000 for a really long time. But at the same time, it wasn t good that it was at the expense of our health. I made the decision to put Barak in at CEO in November of 2002, but he didn t become CEO until July of 2003. He was kind of acting like CEO in January 2003. He worked without a salary. He got paid eventually, but he worked under just a promise that he d be made CEO, which was amazing. To work 6 months with just an understanding he had a lot of faith in us.
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Livingston: Why did it take so long Trott: Because we were just so focused on operating the business. He had his
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employment letter that I had to write and we had to consult a lawyer it s kind of a big thing to put a CEO in. Because of all the negotiations (that were really minor, actually), it just always got put on the back burner.
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Livingston: What else went wrong Trott: Skimping on hardware sometimes. I wouldn t recommend that. We
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often had to replace the stuff we bought because we had been so worried about costs. But that s not always a bad thing. With LiveJournal, Brad [Fitzpatrick] wrote everything instead of buying things. That worked for him. He did his
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Mena Trott 411
thing for 6 years. So I think it works, but we had a different scale than LiveJournal, which took a long time to get a large base.
Livingston: Why did you build new software for TypePad instead of reusing the
code you had for Movable Type
Trott: Movable Type is download software that you install on your own server.
It was meant for people who knew their way around installing server software. We realized that more and more people were coming to blogging with less and less experience. That s relative to the people who are coming in now, who probably have only installed one web application. So we wanted to have a service that anybody could use. That s why we started developing TypePad. It s a lot more like WYSIWYG, and you can drag and drop items into your templates, and you don t have to know any coding. It s a very different product than Movable Type.
Livingston: You have distinct audiences Trott: Movable Type and TypePad are kind of the same audience, and then
there s LiveJournal. Movable Type and TypePad are both about 50/50 gender split and it skews toward people in their 30s. With LiveJournal, 70 percent are under-21 females.
Livingston: I heard that you planned to transfer the code behind TypePad to Movable Type. Is that true Trott: No. We always thought that the features of TypePad would go into
Movable Type. But as time went by, more people who want to use TypePad have just gone to TypePad, and Movable Type tends to be more of a professional business tool. Even though there are still prosumers that are using Movable Type, it s easier to deploy the features that people want on TypePad. It s funny, because Movable Type is a tricky install, but it would be almost impossible for someone to install TypePad because there are so many things that are required with the server setup. It s kind of trying to decide what the best of all the worlds are. That s what we re doing with the Comet stuff that we announced at DEMO. It s kind of the next-generation platform. It s all the features of LiveJournal that are really good privacy per post, friends aggregation, to be able to read people s posts with the publishing options of Movable Type and TypePad. So the reason why TypePad didn t become Movable Type is because the audience is differentiated and it didn t make sense to have that on an installable.
Livingston: What did people misunderstand about what you were doing Trott: There was licensing. From October 2001 to May 2004, Movable Type
was always free and you had paid options. Commercial was the one level that was never completely free. So if you were using it in a commercial way, you d have to pay $150. The thing was that we had these huge companies using Movable Type, paying $150 and putting 150 to 200 people on it. We never felt that was right. That s why we had a strict license that basically said that you don t make money off the stuff that we re not making money off of. It wasn t
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