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Joe Armstrong gonna be four hours solid. I ll do it at home so I know I won t be interrupted. I just want to do it and get into this complete concentrated state where I can do it. I don t think pair programming would help there. It would be very disruptive. Seibel: What s an example of that kind of problem Armstrong: Figuring out bits of a garbage collector it s the imperative coding where you ve got to remember to mark all those registers. Or doing some lambda lifting in the compiler, which is pretty tough you relabel all the variables and then you ve got four or five layers of abstract data types all messing around and frames with different stuff in them and you think, I ve got to really understand this, really think deeply about it. You want to concentrate. I vary the tasks I do according to mood. Sometimes I m very uninspired so I think to myself, Ah, who shall I go and disturb now. Or I ll read some emails. Other times I feel, right now I m going to do some hard coding because I m in the mood for it. You ve got to be sort of right to do the coding. So how s that going to work with two people One of them is just not in a concentrating mode and wants to read his emails and things. Seibel: You did do a kind of serial pair programming with Robert Virding, when you passed the code back and forth rewriting it each time. Armstrong: Yeah. One at a time. I would work on the program, typically two or three weeks, and then I d say, Well, I ve had enough, here you are, Robert. And he d take it. Every time we did this, it would come back sort of unrecognizable. He would make a large number of changes and it d come back to me and I d make a large number of changes. Seibel: And they were productive changes Armstrong: Oh, absolutely. I was delighted if he found better ways of doing things. We both got on very well.He used to generalize. I remember once I found a variable I followed it round and round through about 45 routines and then, out it came, at the end, never even used. He just passed this variable in and out of 45 different functions. I said, What s that for
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Joe Armstrong You don t use it. He said, I know. Reserved for future expansion. So I removed that. I would write a specific algorithm removing all things that were not necessary for this program. Whenever I got the program, it became shorter as it became more specific. And whenever Robert took my program it became longer, adding generality. I believe this Unix philosophy a program should do what it s supposed to do and nothing else. And Robert s philosophy is it should be a general program and then the program itself should be a specific case of the general program. So he would add generality and then specialize it. Seibel: That seems like a pretty deep philosophical divide. Was there any benefit to having the program go through those two extremes Armstrong: Oh yes. Every cycle it improved. I think it was a lot better because of that. And probably better than either of us could have done on our own. Seibel: Can you talk about how you design software Maybe take example of something like OTP. Armstrong: OTP was designed by me and Martin Bj rklund and Magnus Fr berg. There were just the three of us did the original design. We met every morning at coffee and had a long conversation about an hour to two hours and we covered the white board in stuff. I d take loads of notes I wrote all the documentation immediately and they wrote all the code. Sometimes I d write a bit of code as well. And when I was writing the documentation I d discover, I can t describe this, we have to change it. Or they would run into me and say, Nah, it doesn t work; this idea we had this morning, because of this, this, this, and this it doesn t work. At the end of the day we either got to the point where we got all the documentation and all the code or enough of the code and enough of the documentation that we knew it was going to work. And then we called it a day. Some days it didn t work so we said, OK, we ll do it again tomorrow. There wasn t enough time to do a second pass in a day. But about one pass in a day worked fine. Because it gives us about two hours to discuss it in the morning, about two hours to write the documentation or code it up. And if
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