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Peter Norvig that I try to do. Certainly I want programs to be pretty in some ways, and sometimes I feel like I spend too much time doing that. I ve been in a position where I ve had the luxury to say, Gee, I have time to go back and pretty this up a little bit. And places where I ve been able to write for a publication, you spend more time doing that than you would if it was just for your own professional growth. But I don t think of that as art. I think craft is really the right word for it. You can make a chair, and it s good looking, but it s mostly functional it s a chair. Seibel: How do you recognize a great programmer, particularly when you re hiring You guys have hired a lot of programmers and you obviously try to hire really good programmers. How do you do it Norvig: We still don t know. Seibel: Google is somewhat famous for asking puzzle questions in interviews. Do you think that s a good approach Norvig: I don t think it s important whether people can solve the puzzles or not. I don t like the trick puzzle questions. I think it s important to put them in a technical situation and not just chitchat and get a feeling if they re a nice guy. Though it is important to have someone that you can get along with. But you really have to see, can they technically do what they said they can do. And there are a lot of different ways to demonstrate that. And many times you can see it from the r sum . I think our best signal is if somebody has worked with one of our employees before and the employee can vouch for them. But we still try to draw it out on-site during the interview. It s more you want to get a feeling for how this person thinks and how they work together, so do they know the basic ideas Can they say, Well, in order to solve this, I need to know A, B, and C, and they start putting it together. And I think you can demonstrate that while still failing on a puzzle. You can say, Well, here s how I attack this puzzle. Well, I first think about this. Then I do that. Then I do that, but geez, here s this part I don t quite understand. For some people that little part clicks and for some it doesn t. And you can do fine if it doesn t click as long as you ve demonstrated the basic competency and fluency in how you think about it. And then you really want to have people write code on the board if you re
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Peter Norvig interviewing them for a coding job. Because some people have forgotten or didn t quite know and you could see that pretty quickly. Seibel: So is that just a negative indicator If they can t write reasonable code, that s a bad sign. But if they don t stumble over that hurdle, it s hard to tell whether they re actually going to write really good code in a larger context. Norvig: Right. You could tell to a certain degree but at other levels you can t. And we ve studied this pretty carefully because we ve gotten a lot of applications and we look at it at two levels. One, we say, from all the r sum s we get, are we interviewing the right set of people And then, from the interviews we get, are we hiring the right set of people Seibel: So how do you measure that You don t know about the one you didn t talk to or didn t hire. Norvig: Yeah, so that s hard. At both levels, you ve only got half your sample, so it s this biased problem, but I guess basically what we re doing is saying, Of the people that we interviewed and did well, what did their r sum look like, and try to find more of those. Is having so many years of experience important Is working on an open-source programming project important How does that compare to winning a programming contest Seibel: Do you really take all these things and shove them into a database Norvig: Yes, we do, and when we re doing the hiring, we have these scores that come up that say, The r sum predictor says such and such, and the interview predictor says such and such. We don t take them as gospel, but they re just another piece of input along with all the other feedback we have. Seibel: Do the people who are doing the interviews have those numbers beforehand Norvig: No, we only see that when they re in the hiring committee, once we ve gathered all the feedback. One of the interesting things we found, when trying to predict how well somebody we ve hired is going to perform when we evaluate them a year or two later, is one of the best indicators of
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