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Douglas Crockford Crockford: I ll rearrange code so that everything is declared and set up before it s called. Some languages give you a lot of flexibility around that so you don t have to. I don t want that flexibility. Seibel: So you want no forward references Crockford: Right, or if there is a forward reference, I want it to be explicit. I don t want code to come in any random order unless I m doing a literate programming thing in which I m explicitly breaking the code in terms of a presentational order rather than the order that the language wants, and I like that a lot. But unless you re actually using literate tools, you shouldn t be doing that. Seibel: In one of your talks you quoted Exodus 23:10 and 11: And six years thou shalt sow thy land, and shalt gather in the fruits thereof: But the seventh year thou shalt let it rest and lie still and suggested that every seventh sprint should be spent cleaning up code. What is the right time frame for that Crockford: Six cycles whatever the cycle is between when you ship something. If you re on a monthly delivery cycle then I think every half year you should skip a cycle and just spend time cleaning the code up. Seibel: So if you don t clean up every seventh cycle you may be faced with the choice of whether or not to do a big rewrite. How do you know when, if ever, it s time for a big rewrite Crockford: Generally the team knows when it s time. Management finds out a lot later. The team is getting beat up pretty regularly, making too many bugs; the code s too big, it s too slow; we re falling behind. They know why. It s not because they became stupider or lazier. It s because the code base is no longer serving the purpose that it needs to. It s a really difficult thing for management to see, particularly managers who are not programmers. But even programming managers have trouble with this because you ve seen that you ve invested so much time to get to this point. And starting over means we ve got to go all the way back to there and bring it up. And in the meantime we re not going to be going forward
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Douglas Crockford on anything else and it s just impossible. No, we go forward with what we have. The fallacy is that it s going to take that amount of time again, though there are counterexamples. You ve got the second-system problem where people who ve had some success are given a blank slate and allowed to do whatever they want. Generally, they will fail because they ll be too ambitious, they won t understand the limits. And you get nothing out of that. You have to have extreme discipline to say, It s not a blank slate; it s reimplementing what we had here; it s doing what we knew. Part of what makes programming difficult is most of the time we re doing stuff we ve never done before. If it was stuff that had been done before we d be reusing something else. For most of what we do, we re doing something that we haven t done before. And doing things that you haven t done before is hard. It s a lot of fun but it s difficult. Particularly if you re using a classical methodology you re having to do classification on systems that you don t fully understand. And the likelihood that you re going to get the classification wrong is high. Seibel: By classical you mean using classes. Crockford: Right. I ve found it s less of a problem in the prototypal world because you focus on the instances. If you can find one instance which is sort of typical of what the problem is, you re done. And generally you don t have to refactor those. But in a classical system you can t do that you re always working from the abstract back to the instance. And then making hierarchy out of that is really difficult to get right. So ultimately when you understand the problem better you have to go back and refactor it. But often that can have a huge impact on the code, particularly if the code s gotten big since you figured it out. So you don t. So you keep bundling these new things on top of it to try to patch the problems that were in the original hierarchy and it gets cruftier and worse. Seibel: But you do think that refactoring can work, if you take every seventh interval to do it You don t have to end up needing a big rewrite Crockford: I think it can work. Throw it out and start over should only be considered in the cases where you didn t do that or you did it badly or
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