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Douglas Crockford which touches code in a lot of places, I can collect all that code together and describe it together, and then the tool will distribute the details out to where it needs to go. Another of the things he frees you from is the size of a function. Ideally, you want a function to be no bigger than a screen s worth so that you can read it all at once. And if it doesn t fit, then you re making a lot more functions, and if the functions aren t actually contributing anything to the structure of the program, they re just introducing noise. Knuth allows you to take each of the aspects of that function, which may be closely related it might have good coherence but it s just big; sometimes stuff is big and he allows you to represent each of those collections of stuff with an extremely descriptive label and then say, This function is: and then list those labels. You could do that with functions, but it s not quite the same and then you have to deal with communication between the pieces, and so on. So it s introducing more structure which doesn t exactly match the problem. Ultimately I would like to see new languages designed specifically to be literate languages. Knuth has been very good at applying the idea to Pascal and C, but I d really like to see a new language which is, from the bottom, designed to be used in that fashion. Seibel: Have you read Knuth s literate programs Crockford: Sure. Seibel: How do you read them Like a novel Crockford: Yeah, I read it like a novel. I tend to be reading his prose rather than his program, but I really like the way he lays it out and he writes really well, and occasionally he ll slip a little joke in there. I enjoy reading his stuff. Seibel: And what do you get out of it So you ve read TeX: The Program, and you get to the end. Now are you ready to go add features into TeX or do you just have an overall sense of wow, Knuth s a brilliant guy
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Douglas Crockford Crockford: That s a really good question. I ve read TeX, but I didn t read it with an intention that I wanted to modify TeX. I was just reading it to see what he had done. I had a particular interest in how he was doing linebreaking, so I read that part with particular interest, more to understand his algorithm than to understand how the code works so that I can modify it or reuse it. If I were reading it with the expectation that I was going to mess with the program, I m sure I would ve read it differently. Seibel: Do you often read code, literate or otherwise, for fun Crockford: Yeah. There s not much code out there that s good enough that you could read it for fun. Knuth wrote some. Fraser and Hanson have a C compiler that is literate; it s very good. But there are not a lot of examples of that yet. That s kind of a shame. That could indicate that maybe literate programming has failed, because there aren t very many examples of it. Seibel: What about Knuth s magnum opus, The Art of Computer Programming Are you the kind of person who read it cover to cover, who dips into it for reference, or who put it on the shelf and never looked at it Crockford: All except the last one. When I was in college, there were a couple of months where I didn t pay rent in order to buy copies of his books. And I read them and found jokes in them, like there s a TUG joke in the index of Volume I. I have not been able to make sense out of all of it. There are places where he goes really a lot deeper than I can go, but I enjoy the books a lot, and I ve also used them as reference books. Seibel: Did you literally read them cover to cover, skimming over the math that you couldn t understand Crockford: Yeah, the part when there are too many stars, I would read it very quickly.I tried to make familiarity with Knuth a hiring criteria, and I was disappointed that I couldn t find enough people that had read him. In my view, anybody who calls himself a professional programmer should have read Knuth s books or at least should have copies of his books.
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