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Douglas Crockford Crockford: I like them. I was disappointed that Eiffel was not the winner in the object-oriented-language contest; that C++ won instead. I thought Eiffel was a much more interesting language and I liked the precondition/postcondition contract stuff that it did. I would like to see that built into my language, whatever language I m using, but that s another one of those ideas that hasn t really caught on. Seibel: What s the worst bug you ever had to track down Crockford: It would ve been a real-time bug. It might ve been in a video game. We ve got interrupts popping all over the place, and no memory management at all, and the program suddenly goes away and you don t know why. That kind of stuff is really hard. And generally there wouldn t be a debugger around either. At Basic Four we had developed a word-processing terminal. It was a Z80based terminal with a full-page display and 64K, which wasn t nearly enough memory for a display that big. And it had a local network connection to our server where it would send up the pages. And we had this problem where every once in a while the screen would go blank. We had this architecture in which we had a line of text and then it would have a stop code, and then the address of the next line, and a little DMA processor that would follow those links. And at some point a link would go away there was some race that was happening. From our perspective, looking at it logically, all of the links were good, but we hadn t considered the real-time interaction with the DMA processor, which might not be looking at memory at the same time that we were. I just puzzled it out. I remember I was working at home that day and I was on the phone with my team and suddenly the lightbulb went on; I knew what the problem was and I was able to tell them how to fix it and we never had that problem again. In my experience, the worst bugs are the real-time bugs, which have to do with interactions with multiple threads. My approach to those bugs is to avoid making them. So I don t like threads. I think threads are an atrocious programming model. They re an occasionally necessarily evil, but they re not necessary for most of the things we use threads for.
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Douglas Crockford One of the things I like about the browser model is that we only get one thread. Some people complain about that if you lock up that thread, then the browser s locked up. So you just don t do that. There are constantly calls for putting threads into JavaScript and so far we ve resisted that. I m really glad we have. The event-based model, which is what we re using in the browser, works really well. The only place where it breaks down is if you have some process that takes too long. I really like the approach that Google has taken in Gears to solving that, where they have a separate process which is completely isolated that you can send a program to and it ll run there. When it s finished, it ll tell you the result and the result comes back as an event. That s a brilliant model. Seibel: Have you ever been interested in formal proofs Crockford: I watched it closely during the 70s, looking to see if they were going to come up with anything. And I didn t see it paying off. Software is so complicated and can go wrong in so many ways. Basically, software is the specification for how the software is supposed to work. And anything less than the complete specification doesn t really tell you anything about how it s ultimately going to behave. And that just makes software really, really hard. Seibel: How do you test code Are you, as they say these days, testinfected Crockford: I tend to be more ad hoc. That s another place where I m considering changing my style, but I haven t accomplished that yet. Seibel: There is a JsUnit, right Crockford: There is a JsUnit. Testing of UI code is really difficult because it s really dependent on a whole lot of stuff, so breaking it down into units tends to be less effective. Also, I found because of the style that I m writing in JavaScript, it doesn t break in an orderly way into units the way classes do, so you can think about testing a class in isolation.
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